Dorsey Ross Show
Hello, my name is Dorsey Ross, and I am the host of the Dorsey Ross Show. I am a minister and itinerant speaker. I started the Dorsey Ross Show to interview people of faith who have stories of faith and overcoming trials and difficulties. In this podcast, you will hear stories of all kinds. Some will make you laugh, cry, and even say I can connect with that story or that person. I would love to encourage you to check out these stories of faith, encouragement, and inspiration my guests share on the show. I hope these stories give you hope, to get you through your week and your life. Please share them with your family, friends, co-workers, and anyone who needs a little touch of encouragement today.
Dorsey Ross Show
Building Authentic Connections Through Podcasting with Alex Sanfilippo
What if you could transform your passion into a thriving business? Join us as we sit down with Alex Cancelipo, the visionary founder of PodMatchcom and host of "Podcasting Made Simple," who reveals his remarkable journey from aspiring minister to influential podcaster and entrepreneur. Alex's story is a testament to the power of genuine human connections and the unexpected twists that lead to profound fulfillment in unconventional spaces. Learn how his encounter with real estate mogul Brandon Turner exemplifies the magic moments that make podcasting an extraordinary medium for building authentic relationships.
Ever wonder how a faith-driven inspiration can evolve into a groundbreaking platform? Discover the origins and growth of Podmatch, a service that revolutionizes the way podcast guests and hosts connect. Alex shares the divine motivations behind its creation and how its inclusive beginnings during the challenging 2020 era fostered a welcoming community for all. Get practical tips from Alex on enhancing your podcasting skills by embracing transparency and authenticity, countering the often curated nature of social media with real, relatable human experiences.
From blogging to podcasting, and from adversity to purpose, Alex's journey is nothing short of inspiring. Hear about his transformative shift from a money-driven career in real estate to finding his true calling through faith and service. Learn about the inception of "Creating a Brand" and its evolution into "Podcasting Made Simple," along with unconventional strategies for podcast monetization. Alex's heartfelt advice encourages listeners to embrace their unique voice and creativity, overcoming feelings of inadequacy to share their message with the world. Don't miss this episode packed with wisdom, practical insights, and heartfelt stories that will resonate with podcasters and listeners alike.
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Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on another episode of the Dorsuos show. Today we have a special guest with us. His name is Alex Cancelipo. He is the founder of PodMatchcom, a software that automatically matches podcasts, guests and hosts for interviews. It's actually a website. Alex is also the host of the top-rated podcast Podcasting Made Simple and a lead educator in the podcasting industry. Alex's sole focus is to serve independent podcast guests and hosts so that they can grow their influence and resume so they can better serve their listeners. Alex, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Speaker 2:Dorsey, I'm seriously honored to be here. I was telling you before we got started. I've been enjoying listening to your show, so it's really cool to be in this seat. I'll be real with you, though I'm probably going to skip my episode when it comes out, so I'll jump ahead, not listen to myself when it comes out. I'm just kidding, I'll go back and listen to it, but you've got a really great show and I'm just honored to be here. So thank you for what you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no problem, and I'm going to start off with a little icebreaker question and who's your favorite person that you've gotten to interview?
Speaker 2:Oh man, that's a. That's a tough icebreaker question, because now everyone else is going to feel subpar and I don't mean for that to happen. You know somebody who I really enjoyed. I always. I immediately just mentioned the first person came to my mind, but his name is Brandon Turner.
Speaker 2:He's a real estate guy and I've done really well, but the the first time I was supposed to interview him, we got on a call like like we're supposed to, and he's like, hey, man, he goes. I'm so sorry he goes. I don't really work anymore. He goes, but I have to sign contracts and be available for certain things. He goes. I have one that's going to come at any minute unexpectedly.
Speaker 2:He's like, can we just talk and not record and we can just schedule another time? And this is a person I really shouldn't have had access to. People in real estate. Uh, really go after him. They're like always looking for him and we just talked for 30 minutes. He's like, oh well, here comes that call. He goes just let me know when I need to come back and we'll record. And we built this great rapport just in that little bit of time. And he's also a fellow believer and I got to hear I'd only heard his real estate stuff, so I got to hear his faith stuff as well, and he's somebody I just really respect again as a man of God and a business owner. So that was probably for me someone that has really always stood out.
Speaker 1:Okay, I had a similar situation like that happen and I have to now go back and have them interview me. I was having problems with Social Security and I was waiting for a call back from them and I was supposed to be on a podcast interview and I was like you know, I hopped on and I was like, hey, I'm waiting for the call. Can we do this another time?
Speaker 2:Yep, you know, that's just, that's humanity, and I think it's so important to remember that. Even in something like podcasting, sure, somebody's listening to it and that's who we're serving, right Is the listener at the end of the day, but it's sometimes refreshing to know that, oh, these are just human beings like me, a listener right, that just sometimes have life happen and you got to just roll with the punches sometimes.
Speaker 1:So I respect that. That's cool.
Speaker 2:Why are you passionate about what you do. You know I love serving people and maybe that sounds like strange to say, but really when I dove deep into my faith at first I was like I'm going to start serving at church, maybe work at a church one day, and that was kind of my mindset. Cause I'm like, cause I. I realized that, like Jesus has shown me the example of serving and loving others, loving the father and I wanted to do that and in my mind I couldn't do that unless I was in ministry and I came to realize that you know what you can actually serve and love people anywhere and that can still be a passion for you. It sounds strange to people that aren't walking with Jesus, that don't have this perspective of like I'm here to serve, not to be served, but once you gain that perspective, it's your entire life, it's holistic and so many of us disconnect our careers, our jobs, the things that we do, and our faith. So where we serve and love people, right, that's churchy stuff and the rest of it's work stuff. And for me I just had the realization that you know what? I'm probably not going to be in ministry. I did have some opportunity to volunteer and to even be staff at one point, which I decided not to take because I just didn't feel peace about it. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with ministry. I think that's a very high calling.
Speaker 2:For some reason, I just felt like God was telling me this is not for you. And what I have realized is what is for me is being in the business world. And so for me, I was thinking like, where do I find people that I love to serve? And podcasting very quickly became that, because I'm also a people person and I find a lot of business is very and I'm a systems guy as well, but, like a lot of businesses, very systems driven, automations driven, all that right. But, dorsey, what we're doing right now, like this, is human to human and for me I'm like man. That's where I want to show up and serve, and podcasting just gives such a beautiful medium to be able to do what we're doing right now Having a great conversation that I know that will live on. There'll be a legacy behind it. So for me, I'm passionate to serve people and podcasting just happens to be the lane that I feel that God really put me into to do this at the highest capacity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when somebody interviewed me about almost four years ago now somebody interviewed me for their podcast I was like you know what? That was a lot of fun, that was really cool. And I was asking them, hey, how did you get started, what did you start using? And they were telling me, oh, I use Anchor, which is now Spotify Anchor. And I was like you know what, let me try this, Let me see what happens. And you know, it took me a little while, but it started to steamroll and started to snowball and now I'm enjoying it. You know, I may not always, I may drop the ball sometimes and have to pick it back up and then start interviewing people again, but it's what I enjoy doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Dorsey, I see your name come up a lot, so I see you're making some moves, that's for sure. Next time I see you disappear for a little bit of time, I'll be like. I'll be like, dorsey, where are you at, don't fall off, where are you? Right, I'll check in next time. But yeah, you've done a very good job building a reputation and brand that it appears for me a lot online at least.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Obviously, you're the founder of PodMaxcom, so that's what you do in the podcasting space, but you also are the host of your own, so tell us a little bit about that and tell us about how you started Podmatchcom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, first off, I had a show before Podmatch, so my introduction to podcasting wasn't through software, it was through just being a podcaster. Again, I had this idea of I want to serve people and a podcast seemed like a really great way to do that. So I started a show and, in the process, really fell in love with the craft of podcasting, did realize that there was some areas that things needed to happen right, like some areas for improvement to make it better for both guests and hosts. And that's where the idea for Podmatch came from was actually me being a podcaster myself and I was podcasting out business and I did some faith stuff as well, which is really cool. But when I started Podmatch which, for anyone listening who's not familiar with it, it's a service that connects podcast guests and podcast hosts for interviews it's actually how we got connected through Podmatch and basically I would say it works like a dating app, but instead of connecting you for dates, it connects you for podcast interviews. Works really similar to that. It's got a similar kind of technology, and so when I started that, god really blessed it from day one. It just started doing really well and I am so thankful for that. I feel that I had very little to do with that. I felt like the idea came from God. I felt like the launch date came from God, like all of it, and so I give God full glory for that.
Speaker 2:And at that time, after we launched, when we started growing, I realized there was a big need for education as well. And so here I am, a podcast about faith and business. And people were like, well, how do I podcast better? What do I do to be a better guest? How do I be a better host? And these questions were coming up a lot and I remember talking to the team.
Speaker 2:I'm like you know what, as much as I love my faith in business podcasting journey, I think it's time to sunset that and bring that to a close and move fully into podcasting education. So my show now is called Podcasting Made Simple, and it's about making podcasting simple on either side of the mic. So, whether you're a guest or host, the whole idea is can we simplify, demystify even the process on the way? And that was a really personally tough decision for me From day one. After making it happen. This was 100% the right move. So I always just tell people I'm 100% podcasting. I mean, even my podcast is about podcasting, so and that's kind of like the whole, if you will, evolution of what I've done as a podcaster.
Speaker 1:When you started PodMax, was it strictly meant to read or meant to help people of faith, or were you just strictly like hey, whoever wants to use this can use it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, originally we just didn't know. So, to be fully transparent, I had no idea. I was like I don't know, so we didn't have any stipulation like that. However, from day one, I immediately reached out to anyone I knew who was a person of faith, saying, if you know anybody, bring them to the platform. And when we launched, we launched in a very, very early beta. I mean, we had no logo, we had typos everywhere. It was slow, right, but it worked and that's what mattered. So there was no paywall at all. Everything was free. And so I just told people I'm like, hey, I'm asking you to share it. We're not going to charge them for it, we'll keep them free forever, but we want to get a good foundation of people of faith on the platform, because that's what we believe. And we want some more positivity happen, because we launched in 2020.
Speaker 2:And I feel the world is always trends more negatively, but that year specifically, negativity was winning everywhere. Right, like it was rough and it was a tough. I'm not downplaying how tough it was for a lot of people, but I was just like man. We need some positivity and, like who's good at positivity, I'm like people who follow Jesus seem to be pretty positive. Let's find more of them, and so we really did launch, maybe unmeaningfully, but with a lot of believers. A lot of pastors joined right away. A lot of pastors and speakers in the faith space, like you, joined the platform right, like people that have a reputation, like you do. They joined and it was like really cool to see. So it just brought all kinds of people. At this point, we're this huge mix and match, if you will, but at the end of the day, my heart stays the same and it's about really spreading a positive message, serving people, and so, for me, that is my faith in Jesus. So we still have a very good base of believers on the platform.
Speaker 1:But when we launched to answer your question- we just kind of said whoever wants to join, come on. You mentioned in your last comment there about how to be a better guest and how to be a better host For those that might be listening, who may be in the podcasting field or maybe wanting to go into the podcasting field. What advice would you give, even to myself, to be a better guest and to be a?
Speaker 2:show up as transparently as you can, and what I mean is don't hold back, and I see so many people. We look at social media as our example, and social media is great, has its place, but it's not podcasting. They are very, very different things, and so social media really is highlights best foot forward. Show people what you want them to see. Podcasting is take off the mask and just say it all right, share it, and I find that those are the podcasts that people really love the most. And, of course, there are very tactful ways of doing that right. You don't want to show up and then like cry and word vomit for an hour and a half and people be like, what did I just hear? Right. But the thing is like, when, like you asked, like when we launched, did we have like a plan? I just said no, we kind of let anyone show up, right.
Speaker 2:And I think that that level of transparency reminds people that are listening that, oh, this is another human being.
Speaker 2:If I would have said, yeah, let me give you the 10 steps we took to launching Right, unless, of course, it is a presentation of some sort, but for the most part it's a conversation and people want to hear a little bit of themselves in any conversation, and so to me, as a podcast guest or host, this takes a lot of pressure off, because now, instead of saying I've got to be that polished professional that people can just look up to and admire in every possible way, now you're saying I just got to show people that I'm human and then I'm trying and I'm just going to take them along the way with me in this journey.
Speaker 2:And here's what I found People learn less and less from people that are at the top of the mountain. If they're struggling to get over a giant boulder, that person's yelling at them from the top of the mountain right, hey, just go around this way, do that. It's kind of a metaphor here right, but the person's like I can't get over this boulder and you're so far ahead of me, how do I get there? What they're learning from this thing out together, that's how people really like to learn, and that, to me, is the power of podcasting. So let more humanity be in podcasting, be transparent, take off the mask, share your wins, your losses and just do it in a way that has a story to it, and I find that people really love that. And, again, it takes a lot of the pressure off on either side of the mic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know about the size of your show or anything, but how long did it take you to grow your show to its current size? And I got a couple of subset questions to that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my show originally was my business show that I talked about. So I did 158 episodes business show that I talked about. So I did 158 episodes Don't quote me on that, but I think 158 episodes of that show. And then I just changed the name, changed the title and then 159 and beyond was Podcasting Made Simple.
Speaker 2:At that point I had a very substantial drop in listenership. It was about 40. I think it was about 40% of my listenership disappeared overnight, which is fine. The show was no longer for people that weren't into podcasting and so that's perfectly fine, totally okay. But I say that because it means I did already have a little bit of a boost when I launched this thing.
Speaker 2:So right now and you know I don't really look at the downloads much, but I will we have a page. We do it publicly now. So podmatchcom slash episodes has it. Let me just go over that page while we're hanging out here and I can tell you in the last seven days this shows we've had 2,492 people listen to the show and for me I'm extremely happy with that. I'm not really too much so numbers driven, but we just have done our best to continuously make it better and better to serve the people that are listening. So that's where we're at today and I would say it took me probably a year of it being podcasting, made simple, to really find the flow of it and in some ways I'm still working on it, but having a really good time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was. One of my other questions was should people care about the size of their show or even growing their show?
Speaker 2:growing their show? Dorsey, it's such an insightful question. I'm glad you asked this because this is so important to cover. I feel that we don't talk about it enough. I don't think that the top line download number matters as much as most of us think. I get that it is the most addictive number to look at, right, like looking at the total download, like I totally understand that.
Speaker 2:But going back to this mindset of service, do for one what you wish you could do for all. I think that Jesus set a great example of what this looks like. If you think about Jesus' mission while he was on earth, right, like his mission was to set us all free, but Jesus did a lot of what I'll call side quests where someone needed him and he'd go out of his way for that one person. And for many of us, if Jesus was like ah, I can't do anything for one person because I got to do it for all of them, right. And I think that maybe we need to take from that example and say you know what? My show has a niche, has a specific avatar, a person that it serves and there's not a whole lot of them in the world, but I can serve that one person really, really well. So I'm going to do for one what I wish I can do for all.
Speaker 2:To me, the most important thing to track is the impact that you're having on people's lives, and so a better metric to look at is what's called completion or consumption rate, and so if you log into Apple or Spotify I'm not going to get too technical here, but basically it's how far your listeners are making to the episode before they drop off, and there are some shows that get millions of downloads right.
Speaker 2:Millions of people are listening to it, but they're only finishing about 10% of it. So it's like man, are you impacting their life in a big way If they're just listening to a little bit? I'm not trying to be mean about those shows. I would much rather have a show with a hundred people listening, or 50 people listening that they're listening to the whole thing, because it means I'm making a difference in their lives. So to me, what I track sure, I'm public with our download numbers podmatchcom slash episodes literally shows you what our downloads are in the last seven days. But what I look at personally is are people finishing the episodes? If not, why? How can we have a better impact on them and, at the end of the day, is really what I look at, because I don't want everyone to listen, I just want the right people to listen that it can really serve.
Speaker 1:I thought about you know, trying to find out and maybe I'll get the link from you later on about how to. How do I gauge who is listening to the whole show you know? And then would that you know help my you know, help my spirit, or help my you know, help me to be happy about that or be like, oh, only only 10 people listening to the whole show out of the you know, out of 100 downloads yeah, I, I can definitely send you.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I do. It's a little technical for the podcast today, but, uh, I can definitely send it to you. And, and here's the thing, like it a lot, no one ever for me, I've never had an episode go to 100. I've gotten close. But like people start hearing the end, like I'm out of here, right, like, and I get it. That's just human nature to be like. Okay, I think I got it all. Uh, if you think about, like a movie, how many of us stay for the credits, right, and you're like I'm out of here and technically that's still part of the movie, it's in the same run, uh. So, yeah, I try not to beat myself up too much about it, but I do say how can I make this better? And it's a really as a host or a guest, it's a really great way for you to know where you should improve.
Speaker 1:You can really learn something from it. You know, with that same concept of, or question, you know when we're looking at the downloads and we're looking at. You know the numbers of who is listening to the whole show. How should we gauge how the show is doing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my favorite is actually feedback. Feedback from other people is great, like example, like before we start recording. I don't mean to reference that too much. I already referenced it once, but I was talking about Drid uh chakta, I think is how you say it. Yeah, listen, everybody's listening to this, watching this. However, you're consuming this. Finish this and then immediately go to that episode. Uh, it's on the the uh dorothy rock show and it was launched on 5-22-2024. It's called the Transformative Journey of Prayerful Living.
Speaker 2:Listen, that's great content. I'm taking notes, I'm listening to it and I was going back and re-listening to parts because I'm like I want to make sure I catch this. It's just that you did a great job keeping it flowing and keeping the conversation just moving in the proper direction, and so for me, that's amazing and you know that today, dorsey, because we're having this conversation, so you knew that right. And so, as a host, it's so important that you find a way to communicate with your actual listeners. If somebody's like, hey, I really like this episode, just say can I get five minutes of your time or can I ask you a question, if they don't want to get on a call, or anything like that. But the more you can do this, the more you can quickly realize you know what. What they like about it is this one thing, and I'll give you one real life example here, and this is how I actually improved my show.
Speaker 2:When my show was called Creating a Brand it was that business show I started doing these calls. Come to find out. Every single person I talked to loved how I asked toward the end of the episode hey, do you have any final thought, word of wisdom to share with the listeners today? And I only asked it like half the time. I didn't always ask it, but every single person said they loved it. And when I go to my consumption rate the episodes that had that last segment people listened for longer and so I quantified it through data. But people were telling me that. So I started doing that every single time. That, right, there is how you get better as a podcast host. And if you're a guest, if anyone's like, oh, I heard your episode, ask them what did you love about it, and they might say something that catches you off guard and you're like that's what you liked about it. Right, that's what spoke to you. Do more of that, and so for me, it interaction, talking to people that are listening to you.
Speaker 1:Now let's talk about a little bit more personal about yourself, and would you share a little bit about your story with us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I grew up in church, so I'm going to go ahead and start there, but didn't really have a relationship with God. Dorsey, I don't know, is this probably common? I feel like a lot of people probably say this right, you're brought up in church, but it's like your parents' faith, not really yours, so I don't know, is that common here? Do you find that?
Speaker 1:A little bit, you know, depending on who I'm talking to.
Speaker 2:Okay, I just wonder because you've talked to a lot of people, so I was just curious. I'm like no-transcript People was hanging around with the wrong people. I was very money driven, growth mindset type of guy, but like not in a healthy way, and I'll never forget it, though. The world hit a really tough point, and it was. I'll never forget it, though I the the world hit a really tough point, and uh, it was. I was working in the real estate industry. I ran a virtual tour company which was basically making virtual tours of homes, doing some investing.
Speaker 2:And then 2007 hit 2007, eight, nine, and uh, I went from having a thriving business thriving, uh, like I had a at that point like a specifically a rental property that was doing really well let's put it that way like great passive income, especially for an 18 year old kid at that point. And uh, and everything crashed. My company wasn't worth anything. I just gave it away to somebody who was working in it that still wanted to try to run it and I moved into that quote-unquote profitable rental property because I couldn't afford it any other way. Like it had to be me living there, because I couldn't afford it anymore and way it had to be me living there because I couldn't afford it anymore. And, man, I consider that the lowest of the lows in my life. And that's when I really found who I am, who I was, and that's when, to me, my life really began on purpose. And so at that point I remember I got a flyer in the mail rock bottom, I mean. My friends were gone because the friends were only interested in money, because they had the wrong people around. Just nothing was good anymore. And I went to the mail expecting to be more bills because that was my life at that point. And there was a flyer for a young adults church group and I recognized the address. I was like this has to be like literally walking distance from where I live, like this must be like right here. And sure enough, it was in a business park across the street and I decided to go.
Speaker 2:I didn't expect to be welcomed, I didn't know what a relationship with God was really like, but I knew that people didn't care for me because I was a total failure, or so I thought. And I walked in and I immediately just felt the love of God. I can't describe it in any other way. I felt the love of God and the more I started meeting people, I started realizing, oh, these people love me because I'm made in God's image, not because of anything I've done successes or failures, or whatever I think of myself and at that moment it changed who I was.
Speaker 2:And at that point, like I said at the beginning here, I started deciding my life is going to be about love and service, because that's what god has shown me and so a little bit more about me. That's where it all began. I mean, I was probably 20 years old at that point and that's where, like, things really Just were set into motion and that helped me become the man that I am today. And obviously I'm still on a journey, still growing, but like it really didn't begin for me until that point what made you get into the podcasting field of your own?
Speaker 1:So how did you get that started?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was actually shortly after I really gave my life to Christ. One of the things I realized I was feeling called to do was actually start blogging, and that was the only option back then. By the way, I mean, I guess podcasting was a thing, but who listened to podcast in 2007, eight, nine, right, so I actually. How long have you was a thing? But who listened to podcast in 2007, 8, 9, right, like, so I actually? How long have you been listening? When did you start listening to a podcasting? What was your introduction?
Speaker 1:Oof Probably well, maybe you know, a few years ago.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, and that's kind of how I felt Like. So I was blogging at this point and a lot of people really just enjoyed the content. It was all about overcoming struggles, living for Jesus, really figuring out what that looked like and so just kind of discovering that and I really enjoyed it. And then one day I listened to a podcast and I was like that's interesting. I was like what is this? Because it was actually my job at that point and I saw people I thought they were going to be watching something, but they were just listening. I'm people, I thought they're gonna be watching something, but they were just listening. I'm like what are you just listening to this? I'm like what is that? And so that was my introduction. I was like I want to do that. So I started actually a, just a Christian podcast. It was like 15 minutes a month is all it was, but it was just along the side with that blog and really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:And then what got me into podcasting on a bigger level is when I launched Creating a Brand, which is now Podcasting Made Simple. But when I launched that, that really got me into it. And the reason I started that show was because I had been in a career for about 15 years, so during that tough point in my life, I got a job that I ended up doing really well at over a 15-year sprint, if you will and toward the end of it, though, I was like you know what? I think I want to be an entrepreneur, but I don't really know what that looks like anymore. The world has changed, I'm not really sure.
Speaker 2:So I started a show, and the whole idea was just talking to people who had successfully left a nine to five job to become a full-time entrepreneur, and exploring in and out of how they did it, and I wanted to learn for myself. I wanted the free coaching, and I also wanted to bring other people along with me, and that right there really became. That set the fire for me. Behind me with, like, with podcasting, I was like this is what I want to do, like I know this is what I want to do and how I want to serve yeah and um.
Speaker 1:to go back to a couple more questions about podcasting, I think on actually I think it was on podmaxcom, where I saw that possibly by 2025 the number of listening will grow by another 5%. Why do you think podcasting keeps growing?
Speaker 2:You know, I think it goes back to what I shared earlier about the advice for being a better podcast guest or host. I think people like the rawness of it, the humanity of it, the transparency. If I want to learn something, I used to go to at one point I actually went to social media. That was a long time ago. I don't do that anymore. I find it very difficult to find something that's what I'm actually looking for, without getting lost in the mix of all the funny stuff, which is okay, that's what it's for, right, and I used to go to YouTube a lot. But same thing, I'm finding like there's a lot of sponsored content now, so I'm not really getting the best. I'm getting what YouTube says you should listen to or watch, and I've always had a problem with that. And so what I love about podcasting is not algorithm based, it's all like search based. So what I've been doing recently, like when I want to learn about a topic, instead of going to a specific podcast even, I've been typing in what I'm looking for and subscribing like five or six podcasts that go through it and just listening to each of them to start like actually listening and learning.
Speaker 2:And so I think it's growing in popularity because people that have this idea of I want to better myself, I want to go from where I am to where I want to go, I want to transform myself, they realize that podcasts are just a great way to do that. And the interesting thing is, if you look at the listenership data and this is not done by me, it's done by companies like Edison Research is one of them that you can go check out, and this is all public, but a lot of them they have shown that the people who listen to podcasts are among the smartest, most educated, most financially well off, or the people that are just the most ambitious to better themselves. And that's obviously generalizing it, but the fact is, more so than any other medium of entertainment or any sort of content that you'd consume like podcasting is like the pinnacle of it, and so I think we're seeing more people go into that, into this realm of like I want to listen to podcasts, because people have this desire to change themselves and make themselves better.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Do you think it's difficult to monetize the podcast or get sponsorships for a podcast, especially when you're in a like myself, when you're in a specific niche of a podcast, and how would you tell somebody to go about if they wanted to? And are there specific numbers where you want them to reach before they try to monetize?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a good. I'm glad you brought this up. A lot of people immediately go to advertising and stuff, which isn't a bad thing. I just feel it sells the creator, the podcast host, a little bit short, because we don't get paid a whole lot for those types of ads.
Speaker 2:My thoughts on podcast monetization are very unconventional, I guess you can say. I actually had a conversation with the. It was like a state of podcasting episode we did on my show and it was called the hidden value. The hidden value of podcasting it was with Tom Rossi and we talked about is that there's. It goes far beyond just what we may think. So a lot of us we think sponsors, we think advertisers and those aren't bad things. Those might be the best way for some people. But there's unconventional ideas that sometimes will work even better and what we use is we use the example a handful of examples, but one of them that we use was just having like a really niche focused podcast and this was about sponsorship. But finding somebody who serves that niche Like. Here's my example I like to give.
Speaker 2:I live in Jacksonville, florida, very close to the ocean. If I had a Jacksonville Florida surfers podcast, I don't, but let's just imagine I did. I could very easily find someone who's building custom boards and say, hey, I want to advertise for your custom board shop on my podcast and I'll take 20% of any sales you make. Yes, it makes me an affiliate with them. But here's the thing my listeners are exactly the person that that guy wants to work with. That's who he builds boards for, is who listens to my podcast, and so that, right, there is just almost more of a partnership. It's an affiliate partnership of some sort of joint venture, if you will, because what I also want him to do is anyone who's getting a board from him gets a business card with my podcast on it. Hey, enjoy your board. Here's a great podcast you should be listening to. Right, we can kind of build that out together. So finding some sort of aligned partnership is something I really like.
Speaker 2:Beyond that, one other idea I always like to share is listener support. I think we underestimate the listener's role in our podcast, and what I mean by that is simply saying, hey, I need to invest in a new microphone, I want to level up what I'm doing with my podcast show and if you're listening to this, if you wouldn't mind, I got a donation page and, again, most hosting providers allow that. I got a donation page. If you can just donate a few dollars, I'd love to be able to do that so I can offer better content for you.
Speaker 2:I've heard of a few people doing this, but I've heard one thing every time, one listener says I'll just buy you the microphone you want. I've been enjoying this. I'll just buy it for you. Not to toot my own horn, I did that recently. Somebody's show who I've been listening to said the same thing. I really want a new microphone because I want it to sound better. I'm like me too. Because your content is excellent, I literally mailed them a new microphone and, again, opportunity to be part of the actual community of your show. These are just a couple ideas. I could go into way more, but I'm going to slow it down. Turn it back over to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a couple of the links on my show. I have the Buy Me a Coffee and then I have. There's another one that I have from the post about. The post about link has a. They have a donation page as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's just a great way to do it and then mentioning it but I like mentioning it with real life hey, I want to up, I want to level up and I need a new microphone. Right, that gives something specific. A lot of us, I think and it's not necessarily a problem but we just say, hey, I'd love for you to donate to the show. Give people a reason, right, we're more likely to get a donation with a story. It's like a lot of people that do fundraising for missions trips and stuff like that. If they just say, just going on a missions trip would love some money, right, it's like, okay, what are you doing?
Speaker 2:If you say, hey, I'm going to a mission trip because I'm going to be feeding the homeless, I'm going to be building them houses, I'm going to be there for a couple of weeks, I'm really going to share the love of Jesus, people are far more likely to say, yeah, I'll give to that. That's specific, I want to give to that. So the way I like to say is unspecific goals, yield unspecific results. If you want a specific result, have a specific.
Speaker 1:Are there a lot of podcasts out there with the Christian genre or faith-based genre out there, and the second part of that question is what should we do to stand out in that genre for the host? How should we stand out in that genre and in podcasting in general younger, and in podcasting in general?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the category breakout of podcasting. For a long time Dorsey, you'll find this humorous there was no Christian, there was no Christian category for a long time. It was just. I think it even said Christianity slash spirituality. I was like, come on, Come on. So the numbers were a little fuzzy. I was like, come on, you know, like, come on. So like, the numbers were a little fuzzy.
Speaker 2:I think since then there's a subcategory for Christianity now and I will say it is very popular, it's one of the more popular, and I can't tell you exactly where it fits. I don't know numbers off the top of my head, but if you just for anyone listening who is curious, you can actually just Google podcast category numbers and it should be able to show you some ideas around this. But one thing I realized, because I was like wow, it's so cool to see christianity so high up there, right, faith being been really big driver. A lot of them are churches that repurpose their sunday messages into podcast episodes. And so to me, first off, like and I've talked to me like, oh, we don't, we're not trying to get people to listen to it, this is just where we document it. It's on. We tell people if you want to go listen to the message, go there. And so they're not necessarily trying to grow their show like other podcasters that truly are like. This is a podcast to reach people, I don't know. Right, they're trying to reach an internal audience. Most of us are trying to reach an external audience and the Christian space. I think it's flipped. It's one of the few categories where most people are trying to reach an internal audience. Very few are trying to reach the external, and so I always tell people to stand out. The best thing to do is really find your niche and your unique angle within that. So, yes, it's Christianity or it's faith, right, but how are you going to make that unique? And there's a lot of health, wellness I don't know. Faith business podcast. I don't know all the things right, it's kind of like the trendy buzzwords in the area, right, or health and your faith and these things are great. But if you can very specifically say like a podcast for Christ-led founders, getting more specific Christian business owners that run software companies, right Now you're narrowing it down to a smaller niche of people, but it can become more valuable and the thing is, if we don't focus on the top line number of how many downloads we're getting. That can make it really valuable.
Speaker 2:A great fictitious example I can give, and I actually shared this in a webinar I was giving. I said, hey, let's just imagine I have a podcast with 770 people listening to it. Is my next best step to try to grow that podcast? There's about 50 people there. Everybody put in the chat. They all said yes, everyone's like yes, absolutely, you need to grow it. You need to grow it, you need to grow it.
Speaker 2:And I said I think you're all wrong. I was like, because this fictitious podcast is called United States-Based Billionaires, it happens to be 770 of them. I'm like I think I'm reaching my entire audience and of course, that's crazy to think you'd ever have the entire audience or something. But the reality is, aren't those 770 people the richest people, probably in the world, for the most part, right? Is that not a really valuable audience? Why should I say, okay, now let's extend it to this and to that and try to get more and more and more and more? No, I'd be much better. Sure, that's fine. Whatever it's probably in my pocket, you could have that type of opportunity with that group. So to me, it's about really narrowing down specifically who you serve. That's how you stand out in any category in podcasting.
Speaker 1:So what I hear and this is what I was thinking as well, and I think you answered the question. You answered the question, but what I hear you saying is that we should stay with or create a niche, find out what that niche is and stay within that niche and not to worry about who else is out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying and the sad thing is I get the drive for numbers and for more. It's sort of our human nature. I can't tell you how many podcasters I meet, Dorsey, who say they want to be the next Joe Rogan. Listen, the world's already got a Joe Rogan. Like, let's, how about we be us? Right, I'm going to try to be Alex Sanfilippo. I think that that's where I can best show up, and Alex Sanfilippo has a limited capacity but likes to be everyone that he gets to work with. He likes having a community. I'm talking about myself in the third person, but I like to have that community element and because of that I know that I probably will never have a super massive audience, but I'd much rather have the smaller audience where I get to know everybody and talk to everybody. If I meet them at a conference in person, I'm not like who are you? Again I get to say I know you, We've had a conversation before. I just I love that and I find that if we can just say you know what, enough is enough and this is enough for me. This is my lane, this is where I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 2:There's just a lesson there. I mean, let's go back to Jesus. If you look at Jesus' ministry, the amount of people he actually like directly impacted, like let's take the supernatural out the people he actually came in contact with, and how far he moved around, it wasn't really that far, Like it wasn't as many people as many of us would imagine. Again, this is firsthand right, Like not all the, not the spirit flowing because he impacted all of our lives right, but like his ministry, I think he set a great example of sometimes enough is enough. And when he got around groups of 5,000 people, his action almost every single time was to go off by himself and leave. And there's gotta be something there. Right, there has to be something. I refuse to believe that. So I just think the notion of it's always going to be bigger, better, bigger, better is maybe not the right direction. I think there's a lot more fulfillment in saying I have the discipline to say this is who I serve, this is how I serve and this is enough.
Speaker 1:Right, Well, thank you so much, Alex, for that and for this interview. I greatly appreciate having you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dorsey, this was a blast. You asked me some incredible questions. I don't really get asked very much, so I'm excited to share this with my audience as well. So thank you again for having me.
Speaker 1:One last question what?
Speaker 2:encouragement would you share with my audience, whether they're, you know, wanting to go into the podcasting field or not? Yeah, the encouragement I would provide is to remember that each of us has greatness and creativity within ourselves. We have greatness and creativity within ourselves. I believe we're all created beings and, as created beings, we are called to create, and that's the art of being creative, which looks different for each of us, right?
Speaker 2:But if you're saying, I want to be in this space, don't sell yourself short. If you're like, well, I can't do what Dorsey does, I can't do what Alex does, if you're saying those things, stop. You have greatness and creativity within yourself and you're the only person who can share the message that you have in the way that you can share it, because God made each of us uniquely. And I just encourage you get out there and do for that one person what you wish you could do for all, and don't let the fear of the unknown stop you or feeling like you're inadequate. You are enough. You have that greatness and creativity and God has made you to get that message out to the world.
Speaker 1:Amen. Well, thank you, Alex again for coming on. We greatly appreciate having you and guys and girls. Thank you again for listening and please like, share and leave a comment, review on all podcast platforms and until next time, God bless, Bye-bye.
