From Newsroom to Pulpit: Mike Manuel's Transformative Journey of Faith

What sparks a successful TV anchor to trade the newsroom for a pulpit? Pastor Mike Manuel shares his compelling journey, offering us a glimpse into life on the family farm with his charismatic father, Rex, and how a pivotal Bible camp experience transformed his path. Mike's fascinating transition from broadcasting to ministry is both humorous and heartfelt, embracing the power of faith to find true purpose. His story is a testament to the unexpected turns life can take when guided by a higher calling.

Why do Christians still wrestle with Satan if Jesus's victory on the cross was final? This intriguing question sets the stage for a deeper exploration into the subtleties of spiritual warfare. Drawing from his book "Breaking Up With the Enemy," Mike unpacks the profound impact of our words and thoughts, urging us to speak life and positivity. Through personal insights, he reveals how aligning our speech with God's will unlocks the Holy Spirit's transformative power in our lives, encouraging us to rise above negativity.

Embracing the supernatural in Christianity, Mike navigates the complex terrain of modern faith. He discusses how the New Covenant calls for a life led by the Holy Spirit, highlighting the growth of younger generations within the church. From deciphering the enemy's tactics to advocating for a church that thrives on truth and spiritual power, this episode is an invitation to explore the miraculous. Join us as we challenge misconceptions and invite listeners to experience the full impact of faith, just as Jesus and his disciples did.

Mikes Website

https://www.motaministries.com/

Chapters

• 0:15 Mike Manuel
• 11:00 Breaking Up With the Enemy
• 20:17 Recognizing and Defeating the Enemy
• 35:32 Higher Standards and Church Growth
• 39:51 The Power of Holy Spirit

Transcript

Dorsey Ross: 0:16

Hello everyone, thank you again for joining me on another episode of the Dorsey Rus Show. Today we have a special guest with us. His name is Mike Manuel. Before becoming a pastor at the age of 40, mike spent several years in the broadcast industry as an on-air video personality and a TV news anchor for local NBC affiliate. Over the last two decades as a pastor, micah's equipped thousands of people to experience more of God's power, purpose and peace through effective deliverance ministry and understandable biblical teaching. Mike has written two books. One is named Torn, emplacing the New Covenant in an Old Covenant World, and there's Noah's book, breaking Up with the Enemy how to Defeat the Devil's Deceit and Reclaim Peace, hope and Joy. As my podcast guest today, mike will give us my listeners tangible biblical steps that they can take to experience more of the abundant life that Jesus promised in John 10. Mike, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Yeah, you're welcome.

Mike Manuel: 1:48

It's great to be with you, Dorsey. Thank you Absolutely.

Dorsey Ross: 1:52

Now, what is your favorite? As I said earlier I know, give my guests an icebreaker question. Today's icebreaker question is what's your favorite funny story to tell?

Mike Manuel: 2:08

Well, that's an easy one. I grew up on a family farm and then moved later on, moved back to the farm as an adult, raised my boys and worked with. So, growing up working with my dad and my dad was a pretty colorful person and his name was Rex R-E-X and we—he was quite a character and there was some—several episodes on the farm that lent itself to some great stories, and so every time we would get together for a family gathering, later on in the years people would say tell us a Rex story. So that's my favorite stories to tell are Rex stories. Growing up with my dad on the farm, and what would be one of those stories?

Mike Manuel: 3:02

Well, I'll try to not make it too long, but the one that I think that started everything. I was probably about eighth grade, I think kind of a smart aleck junior high boy and our dog got ran over a great big St Bernard lab cross, and its leg got broken. And so my dad was going to take it to the vet and so he tried to put it in our pickup truck and it would just jump out. It didn't like being in the back of the pickup so it wouldn't stay in the pickup. Even with a broken leg it would jump out. And so he decided to put it in the trunk of our car and at that time we had one of those great big Olds 98, big banana boat cars and I was inside the house watching. I should have been out helping, but again, I'm a smart aleck eighth grade boy, and so I was watching out the window and he'd scoop up this dog and put it in the trunk and then put his hands up on the lid of the trunk to close it. But the dog would jump out and this repeated itself three or four times. Put the dog in the car, dog would jump out before he could get the trunk closed. So he hollered at me to come out and help him. And he was.

Mike Manuel: 4:17

He was kind of intense when he was doing things and I always tried to please my dad, and so he said, okay, I'm going to put this dog in and hold him down. And when I say close the trunk, you close the trunk quick. Well, he put the dog in and he said, just starting to say, close the trunk. Well, I came down with all the force of the universe with that trunk and hit him right on the top of the head. It was the most sickening thud I've ever heard in my life and I honestly thought I killed my dad. And he howled around for about 30 seconds and I thought, you know, I was asking him should I call an ambulance? And he just kind of shook it off. He said I'm fine and got in and took the dog to the vet. But you know, it's that story of the young boy trying to please his dad and you know I'm going to do things so well, but I kind of got him off guard. So anyway, that was kind of the first episode of the wreck.

Dorsey Ross: 5:17

how did you in your bio that-air radio and then got into the TV side?

Mike Manuel: 5:44

That's a long story I won't tell now. And I was single at that time when I was in the TV business and then got married during that time and my wife and I wanted to have kids. And you know, doing the local news you have newscasts at 5.30 and 10. So I was gone every evening, every weeknight evening, and I could see that that wasn't going to be really family friendly. And although I mostly enjoyed that career, I could just tell that it was not going to be the best to raise a family. And at the same time we had an opportunity to move back to the family farm and kind of take that over. So we made that decision and so I did that for a while until I was called in to the ministry as a pastor.

Dorsey Ross: 6:37

Did you grow up in the church? Were you? You know were you saved most of your life.

Mike Manuel: 6:44

Yes and yes, I grew up in the Lutheran church, which I'm, you know. I'm thankful. You know I learned some of the Bible stories and, of course, knew about Jesus and His death on the cross. You know, there's some things I didn't catch. This concept of salvation somehow escaped me.

Mike Manuel: 7:04

But I went to a Bible camp more of a non-denominational evangelical-type Bible camp when I was 10 years old and that's where I first heard this idea of salvation, old, and that's where I first heard this idea of salvation and, you know, personal salvation and putting your faith and trust in Jesus to be saved. Before that I thought, well, you just be, you know, just be good. But I'm only 10 years old too, so you know you're still trying to figure this out. But anyway, it was at that Bible camp that I accepted Jesus and was saved. But you know, then, through the teen years junior high, high school I still continued to go to church, but I wasn't well-discipled and I didn't learn a lot about the Bible. But I was saved and I did stupid high school things, you know, like a lot of people do. But I would say it was probably in my younger adult years, 1920, 21, going to college, getting into a good church. That's where I really learned more about salvation, jesus himself and the gospel message.

Dorsey Ross: 8:16

When it comes to what you do now as a pastor. What makes you passionate about what you do?

Mike Manuel: 8:24

Oh, that's a great question, honestly. It's to see life change in people, to see them transformed. You know, there's so many people that just don't have peace and they don't know how to get it and they just think know how to get it and they just think it's elusive. And that crosses all boundaries financial boundaries, society boundaries, educational boundaries. There's just—people don't have a lot of peace and they're increasingly losing hope. And when they're taught the gospel message and salvation through Christ and freedom from the influence of the enemy and God's love for them and God's forgiveness for them, to just see their life transformed and even after salvation, to see them grow and become more and more like Christ, to experience more peace and more joy and more hope and just to see them come alive, that's my passion.

Dorsey Ross: 9:31

And here's another question that I would like to discuss with you If the devil was defeated on the cross, why do we still have to deal with him?

Mike Manuel: 9:46

Yeah, that's a great question. It's a question I had to wrestle with. So I'm a second-career pastor, as some people refer to it. I started pastoring when I was 40, as you mentioned in the intro and the first few years pastoring I was kind of a spiritual ambulance, trying to kiss everybody's boo-boo and help everybody. But the need is so great, there's so much people are going through out there, and it became almost overwhelming, and so I began sending people to, referring them to professional counselors, which there's definitely a need for that.

Mike Manuel: 10:26

But what I really found out is the majority of people were struggling with spiritual issues that led to emotional issues, and so the root problem was spiritual, not clinical. You know there was some of that clinical problems, but not a lot. So I really began to. You know, god just really took me on a journey, teaching me how to set people free from the influence of the enemy and how much the enemy was influencing people and bringing baggage into their life.

Mike Manuel: 11:01

But one of the questions I had was a question you asked is well, why are we—Jesus defeated Satan on the cross, the Bible says that. So why are we even messing with him? And what I learned is this that Jesus did win a victory the victory on the cross, that Jesus did win a victory the victory on the cross and we're called to enforce that victory, just like when you know if nations are in battle, like World War II, for example. We won World War II, we won the victory, but then we had to enforce the borders. We kept soldiers on the borders to make sure that the enemy didn't try to cross the border again.

Mike Manuel: 11:43

And it's similar to that in our Christian life. Jesus won the victory for us, but we have to enforce that victory and he's given us power and authority to do it. But a lot of Christians number one don't know how to—they don't know that they have that power and authority, number one and they're missing some critical—I would say a critical step in taking power and authority over the enemy. And so there's—like Paul said, we shouldn't be ignorant of the devil's devices, of his schemes, but a lot of Christians are of his schemes, but a lot of Christians are.

Dorsey Ross: 12:21

And the Bible also says you know, the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy as well. Right, so what I hear you saying is that we can keep the enemy from you know, from our lives. We just have to know how to deal with that.

Mike Manuel: 12:41

Right, exactly, and a lot of Christians, including myself. Even years as a pastor. I was not really well equipped to do that.

Dorsey Ross: 12:51

So what would you say to the Christians, and to myself even, how would you say, what would your logic or what would your outline be to do that?

Mike Manuel: 13:05

Here's the key the enemy can't do whatever he wants. Again, he's been defeated, but he's still active. He still has some power, but the only power the enemy has. When I say enemy, I'm talking about the devil and his army of fallen angels, which the Bible calls demons or evil spirits. They're real. Jesus referred to them. He said you know, you have power and authority over them because they're real, right. But the only power they have is the power of our agreement.

Mike Manuel: 13:37

And we would think, well, I would never agree with the enemy, but we do, unknowingly, unwittingly. And so in Genesis 1, god gave us mankind power and authority on this earth. It's his earth, right. He's the sovereign king, he's the Lord of all, for sure. But in his sovereignty, for whatever reason, he's given mankind power and authority on the earth. And he said that in Genesis 1, and he reaffirmed that in the New Testament, you know more specifically in Matthew 16. He said I give you the keys of the kingdom. So we have power and authority. Of course, he created us with free will as well, so that we could love, and that's another topic. But he knew that we would use our free will to at times disagree with him. And Adam and Eve did that. They disagreed with God and agreed with Satan, and that's what empowered Satan and that's what empowers him today is our agreement.

Mike Manuel: 14:45

And again you would think, well, I would never agree with the enemy. But here's a simple illustration that I think we've all probably experienced. You know, the Bible says this is the day the Lord has made. I'll rejoice and be glad in it. So if we get up in the morning and say, god, I don't know what today holds, but you hold today and I trust you and I'm speaking life into today and I'm just believing that you're going to go ahead of me and that there's going to be joy and peace, and so'm just believing that you're going to go ahead of me and that there's going to be joy and peace, and so I just partner with that in Jesus' name. When you do that, the Holy Spirit is there to help that happen and there's a word for that. It's called prayer. When we speak according to God's will, god is there to help make that happen. That's biblical, that's the basis of prayer.

Mike Manuel: 15:42

Conversely, when we speak in disagreement with God's word, the enemy is right there, the devil's right there, to help that happen. So if we get up in the morning and say, oh, today's going to be a horrible day, today's going to stink, the boss is going to be grouchy, kids are going to be sick, the weather is going to be horrible, or you know whatever. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We don't think anything of that, but that's the type of stuff that the enemy can agree with. You know, the Bible says in Proverbs 18, 21, that death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit.

Mike Manuel: 16:18

I just used to think that meant, you know, say nice things, don't say bad things. And it does mean that. But it means much more. It means there's power in our words. That's why Jesus said watch the words you speak. There's no such thing as idle words. So when we speak in agreement with God, he's there to help that happen Again. Consequently, if we speak in agreement with the enemy, he's there to help that happen. And there are people having supernaturally cruddy days simply from the words of their mouth. And so, again, we wouldn't think that we would agree with the enemy, but we do, and one of the main ways we do that is simply from the words of our mouth.

Dorsey Ross: 17:03

Yeah, I would never have thought about that either. But you know, you're right, we do and, like you're saying, with the words that we say and the words that we speak, we need to be careful with what we say and with what we speak.

Mike Manuel: 17:19

Yeah, because actually what you're doing then and this is a really important concept and I talk about it in my book Breaking Up With the Enemy is that we actually, through that, give the enemy legal consent in our life. There's this concept that I talk about in my book, that the Bible talks about. Jesus actually talked about it. One of the places in Matthew 18 is an example of that, and I can talk about that in a minute of this idea of legal consent or opening doors to the enemy. Again, the enemy can't do whatever they want. They just can't attack and do whatever they want. They're very limited, again, by our agreement. But when we do agree, we've opened a door to the enemy, we've given them legal consent.

Mike Manuel: 18:09

Now, that doesn't mean we get possessed, because Christians cannot be possessed. The Holy Spirit possesses us, but we can be oppressed, we can be influenced, and that's what the devil does. When we agree with him, he gains access really to just speak into our life and tries to influence. His only power really is influence. He lies to us hoping that we'll act on that lie or believe that lie, and it just brings anxiety and fear and hopelessness and just all kinds of junk.

Mike Manuel: 18:44

And so one of the reasons I wrote the book, based on a couple decades of ministry experiences, is it is possible to get rid of that baggage. There's so many people, christians, who are full of anxiety and fear and living lives of chaos and anger and sexual dysfunction and just all kinds of things, hopelessness, and again. The list goes on and on. I just think that's just normal, that's just life, that's just part of life. And Jesus didn't say that. He said in John 10.10, I came to give you an abundant life, which doesn't mean every day is going to be easy, but every day can have peace and hope and joy. And so I think Christians have just settled in their mind that, well, this is just, this is the way it is, and we just got to grind it out until Jesus comes back. And that's not what he said and that's not what he wants.

Dorsey Ross: 19:49

Now you mentioned about your book, you know, breaking Up With the Enemy. Can you tell us a little bit more about that book, the title of it? The title of it sounds like you know. It sounds like you know we're in obviously we're not, but it sounds like you know we're in a almost like a dating relationship with the enemy and we're thinking up with them. Can you tell us a little bit more about the title and about you know? What made you write the book?

Mike Manuel: 20:17

Yeah, yeah, that. So um it, yeah, it's not like we're dating the devil, but it's like like he kind of is, he's influencing us and it's like being in a dysfunctional relationship. Uh, and it's there. You know, sometimes you just it's, you don't know how to get out of it. You just don't know how to get out of it.

Mike Manuel: 20:36

And of course, we don't knowingly date the enemy, but we do come under that influence and a lot of people are in a relationship with the enemy and don't even know they're in a relationship with him. In other words, the only power the enemy has again is the power of our agreement. But the only way he works that out in our life is to speak to our mind, to lie to us, and he gives us a lot of truth when he twists it, just enough to get us 180 degrees out of whack. And so a lot of people don't recognize the lies of the enemy. They just think it's themselves thinking things through, because the enemy speaks to our conscience. You know, it's not some scary deep voice from the pit of hell, it's a voice because the devil speaks to our conscience. It sounds like us just thinking things through, and I'm sure a lot of you know the listeners out there have had conversations with themselves. You probably have, I have. We hear basically three voices other than other people. We hear our own voice. You know we think things through, but then there's the voice of God that speaks to us and there's the voice of the enemy.

Mike Manuel: 21:52

And I think a lot of Christians don't recognize either. They don't recognize the voice of God and they don't recognize the voice of God and they don't recognize the voice of the enemy. They just think it's them thinking things through. But because God speaks to our conscience, again it sounds like us because it's not audible. It's just these thoughts that come in, but a lot of times they're God thoughts, but a lot of times they're enemy thoughts. Enemy is speaking to our mind, you know, getting us to act in a way that's not good or filling us with despair and hopelessness, like you're not lovable, you're not worthy, nobody, you don't count, you're not valuable to other people, and it goes on and on and on, and the enemy just constantly speaks that to people, hoping that they'll believe that. And a lot of people do, and that's what brings the baggage into their life Anxiety, fear, hopelessness, all that stuff.

Dorsey Ross: 22:51

You know you mentioned about those voices that the enemy speaks into us. I remember he does at times as well. You know, still to this day he does, and you know I think that goes back to what I mentioned before that he wants to still kill and destroy us. But I remember, you know times where he would say you know you're telling me that I was no good. You know I wasn't going to make it in this life. You're ugly. You know no woman is going to love you. You know all those voices coming into my head and I had to realize and I had to say hey, you know, get behind me, satan. You know I'm going to believe what God is telling me.

Mike Manuel: 23:35

Right, so you've experienced that. I think every Christian has experienced some degree of that, but most of them don't recognize it. They don't recognize the voice of the enemy.

Dorsey Ross: 23:51

Why do you think that is?

Mike Manuel: 23:54

Well, again, because you know he's speaking to our conscience and we just think it's us thinking things through. And once you know so that's why I think this book is so helpful, again based on 20 years of ministry and doing seminars in this line of deliverance is once people kind of awaken themselves to the tactics of the enemy. They realize wait, so those aren't my own thoughts, that's the enemy. Putting those thoughts in there and then like oh, okay, and the more you are aware of that, the more you begin to recognize that. And it's the same with the voice of God. The voice of God can be audible and I think maybe I heard that once, but really most people that's not the experience. The Bible says it's this still small voice and again God speaks to our conscience and again it sounds like us. But it took me a while to really begin to recognize the voice of God. And even today it's like, okay, god, was that you, or is that me just thinking, or is that you? And if that's you, I'd like some confirmation. And so I think it's more subtle than we maybe expect and I think that's why people miss it, because they're waiting. Whether it's from God or the devil, they're waiting, you know, like say it's God. They're waiting for this big, boomy voice from heaven, you know, and that almost never happens. I suppose it could, but that's not generally how God speaks.

Mike Manuel: 25:39

Elijah had that same experience, but the same with the enemy. It's not some scary figure that shows up in your bedroom with horns and a tail and a pitchfork. It sounds like the voice of reason in our head, like did you see the way she rolled her eyes at you? Are you going to put up with that? You need to go tell her right now just what you think. You need to put her in her place, because if you don't do that, she's going to keep doing that and rolling over people. So you just give her a piece of your mind right now. You go and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean there's just thing after thing after thing that the enemy does. It tried to break up relationships, does try to break up relationships, try to load us down with hopelessness, just speaking to us and trying to influence us to act in a way that would be in disagreement with God.

Dorsey Ross: 26:27

And I guess the way we get over that and the way we deal with that is obviously in reading of the Bible and, you know, studying the Bible, and also in then asking God to help us to distinguish those voices in our head and helping us to you know, know whose voice is actually speaking to us.

Mike Manuel: 26:54

Right, you're right. The more time you spend in God's Word, reading His Word, the more you learn His character and nature. And the Bible says the Holy Spirit actually speaks to you while you're reading the Word, helps you understand it. So that's a really important thing. But what I found I think here's something that's in my book that's really missing. What I found I think here's something that's in my book that's really missing is going back to our power and authority that God gave us, the same power and authority that kind of opened the doors to the enemy, gave them the legal consent. That power and authority came from us and our words. So we need to use that same power and authority to shut the lying mouth of the enemy, to get rid of their influence in our life. And that's one thing I didn't know, that's one thing that came to me later and that's how I've really been able to help people. So getting rid of the enemy a lot of people refer to that as deliverance, which is in the Bible like literally means rescue, and and Jesus said that's you know Matthew 10, seven and eight that we would have to do that in the Lord's prayer. He said deliver us from the evil one. So so we know that's a thing. So how do you do that? And it's really what I found is well, actually it's a three-step process, but the first two steps are dealing with the devil. The last one is getting filled up with Jesus. But the first step is breaking that agreement with the enemy. You have to break that agreement Now.

Mike Manuel: 28:36

I don't want to take a lot of time, but in Matthew 18, jesus is telling the parable of the unmerciful servant. There's a guy that runs up a big debt in the kingdom. He works for the king and the king calls him in and says, hey, you ran up this big debt, pay it back. But it was unpayable, it was too much money. He says I can't pay it, but please have mercy on me. And the king did, didn't throw him in jail. But then that same servant goes out and has another guy thrown in jail that owes him a small amount of money.

Mike Manuel: 29:09

And Jesus, his main focus here is teaching on forgiveness, and he's teaching here and elsewhere in the Bible that we, as believers, we need to forgive everyone, no matter what they've done. And that's difficult and again, that's maybe a topic we can tackle. Another day is forgiveness, but we're called to forgive everyone. And what Jesus says in Matthew 18, down about 35, well, 33, 34, 35, it says the king. Because the guy didn't forgive, the king had him thrown, turned him over to the jailer to be tortured. And then in verse 35, jesus says and that's what my heavenly father will do to you if you don't forgive your brother from your heart.

Mike Manuel: 30:02

Now I want to be really crystal clear. God is not a jailer, he's not a torturer, he's the giver of every good gift, he's the author of life. But there is a jailer and there is a torturer, and it's the enemy, it's the devil and his army of fallen angels. And what God is saying is I'm paraphrasing what Jesus is saying in this parable he's saying you need to forgive people, and if you don't forgive people, you're not agreeing with me, you're staying in disagreement. If you will not forgive someone. And if you stay in disagreement, you are opening the door to the jailer, to the torturer. And I can tell you, in 23 years of pastoring, I've helped hundreds of people, maybe a thousand, I don't know.

Mike Manuel: 30:54

Work through unforgiveness though. Work through unforgiveness because it's such a huge open door to the enemy, because if you willingly stay in unforgiveness, you are in disagreement with God, and when you're in disagreement with God you're in agreement with the enemy and it's your agreement with the enemy that opens those doors. So I would say that unforgiveness is the biggest open door to the enemy. So one of the keys in the book that we walk through it becomes more of a manual. The first several chapters are an explanation.

Mike Manuel: 31:27

In my book, breaking Up With the Enemy, the first few chapters are an explanation of you know, how do we get here? Why do we even have to deal with this? But the last part of the book is really more of a manual to walk through. How do you close that door? How do you cancel that legal consent? And then so that's step one cancel that consent we gave the enemy.

Mike Manuel: 31:47

Step two is then kick them out In the name of Jesus. You got to go Again. We're not possessed, but we're taking that authority, like Jesus told us in Luke 10, 19. He says I've given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. So we take that authority, we kick them out and then the third step is to fill up with the good stuff that comes from Jesus, because Jesus said if you sweep the house clean and don't fill it back up, the enemy's going to come back seven times stronger Again. We're not talking possession I mean, that's a real thing, but not with believers. We're talking oppression. We're talking influence, and so really that's the crux of the book helping people walk through that step by step, topic by topic.

Dorsey Ross: 32:43

And in the other book, torn, you wrote about how many Christians mix the Old and New Covenants.

Mike Manuel: 32:53

What, does that look like and what's the problem with that? Yeah, so I realized that I was mixing a lot of the old covenant with the new covenant. So the whole Bible—I want to be clear on this as well—the whole Bible is God's Word and it's for us today, but we're not—there are parts of the Bible that we are no longer under. Now we need to understand it, but we're not under the Levitical law, for example. Jesus has fulfilled the law so that we don't have to, and so the new covenant is different than the old covenant. We're under the new covenant, not the old, and so— and so I think a lot of people mix things. You know one of the things.

Mike Manuel: 33:47

I guess that when I was younger, going to the Lutheran church, I remember asking my mom, because some of my friends in school went to the Catholic church and they had priests. It's like, mom, how come we don't have a priest? She's like, well, we don't need one. Well, why not? She goes. I don't know. So you know things—okay, so why do some churches have priests and some don't?

Mike Manuel: 34:12

But really, the question that got me and really was why I wrote the book Torn is okay, the New Testament says we're no longer under the law, that we've been set free of the law, we're under the Holy Spirit.

Mike Manuel: 34:30

So if we're not under the law and the Ten Commandments are referred to as the law, then are we under the Ten Commandments? And for years, as a pastor, I couldn't answer that question because it's like well, of course we're under the Ten Commandments. It sounds like heresy to say you're not under the Ten Commandments. Right and technically it is, but it's like okay, but so it's not right to say we're not under the Ten Commandments. But yet the Bible says we're no longer under the law. So how do we view the Ten Commandments? And I didn't have a good answer for that and I really had to research that. And the answer to that is really what caused me to think okay, now what other areas are we kind of confused about as far as the Old Covenant and the New Covenant? And so I cover, I don't know, 11, 12, or 13 different areas where we can get confused there.

Dorsey Ross: 35:31

And thank you for explaining. You know the Old and New Covenant. You know because some people may, you know, not understand or not know what that actually means.

Mike Manuel: 35:44

Yeah, yeah, and when I was—so it all started. You know, when I'm, I suppose, third grade, my parents got me a Bible and I just started reading in it. But I didn't understand that—the between the old covenant and the new covenant. So you start reading things, like you know, men shouldn't cut their hair from the temples and you can't eat shellfish, or you know all these different sorts of like what, why are we not doing that? It's in the Bible and so it took me. So you just kind of ignore it, like, well, I don't understand it, so I'm going to ignore it, and it takes a few years—it took me a few years to get that figured out. But so there might be some of the listeners like, well, what about that Ten Commandment thing? I just want to just talk about that just really briefly. Here's what I found Everything in the New Covenant really is a higher standard than the old covenant, because we're led by the Holy Spirit now, not by rules and regulations etched out on a stone or a piece of paper.

Mike Manuel: 36:58

So, for example, the Ten Commandments says so. For example, the Ten Commandments says do not lie. So okay, if I don't lie, I follow that commandment. Good, all right. But the New Covenant says be a speaker of the truth, speak the truth in love. So that doesn't sound like difference, but it is different. So Old Covenant is don't lie. New Covenant is speak the truth. Okay. So that's different, that's a higher standard. Old Covenant says don't steal, All right, the Ten Commandments Do not steal, all right. So if I don't steal, I'm good, I'm obeying the commandment. But the new covenant says be generous and give to people generously. That's a higher standard.

Mike Manuel: 37:52

The Bible says do not kill, do not murder. More specifically, do not murder Like, okay, good, I haven't murdered anybody, so I'm fulfilling the commandments. But the new covenant says if you even think about that, if you even think poorly about someone, that's the same as murder. It's a higher standard. So we're called to speak life into people. So, old covenant don't murder them. New covenant speak life to them. So you kind of see how the new covenant is a higher standard. So are we under the Ten Commandments? Well, that's not even a good question. We're actually over the Ten Commandments. We're held to a higher standard, with the Holy Spirit speaking to our heart and leading and guiding us, and so that turned out to kind of be a long answer. But I just want to share something with your listeners that confused me for years.

Dorsey Ross: 38:52

Yeah, thank you for that. You recently seen an influx of people under 40 in your church 40 in your church. Why is that happening and how can other churches experience growth in that?

Mike Manuel: 39:11

demographic. Yeah, because for years and years it was a lot of churches like well, we're all the young people and it was the baby boomers age, churches, aged, and in our church we've just been really blessed to have a lot of young people. A lot of them are married with children, some of them are single, a lot of Gen Zers single and I'm 63 years old, I'm an old guy with gray hair and I don't have pointy hair and I don't have ripped jeans, but we have all these young people coming and I think it's a couple reasons. You know where we speak the truth in an understandable, clear way and unapologetically. But there's also just the presence of the Holy Spirit there. You know you can speak truth apart from the Holy Spirit, right, but when you—this is going to—I don't want to make this sound like, you know, new Age or weird, but when there's an atmosphere of the Holy Spirit and people walk into that, a lot of them don't recognize that, but like there's something different here and it's not again because I'm trying to be relevant and comb my hair right way it's like no, we're just passionate about the presence of God. We're passionate about His presence, his power, his truth. So we're preaching truth, but we're also allowing time just to be in the presence of God through worship and without a lot of, I don't know, religiosity I guess that's the word. There's so much religiosity that has crept into churches over the years and that doesn't do much for people, and that's what Jesus came against. He didn't die for religion, he died for people. Right, as we get to the end, one of the last's available to us to work through us.

Mike Manuel: 41:50

That's something I didn't—I mean, I read in the Bible, but for years, even as a pastor, I didn't see a lot of God's power. I mean there was a lot of truth, and there's truth in power, for sure. But you know, for example, matthew 10, 7, and 8, jesus said to those who believe he said heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons freely of receive, freely give. Well, you read that. And it's like heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons freely of receive, freely give. Well, you read that, and it's like heal the sick, like what? And it's like okay, well, I'll skip on to something else, because, like, I can't heal the sick, but actually Jesus said you can and I want you to.

Mike Manuel: 42:41

And in John 14.6, 14.12,. He says the same things I do you'll do, and he talks so much about, you know, these miraculous things that work in the lives of a believer, and for years like, see, I'd read that because it's all over the New Testament. You read that and it's like, is that for today? And it's like I don't see where it's not for today. I don't see anywhere in the Bible that says, well, you don't need that anymore. It's not in the Bible. And so it was kind of a challenge to me. And when I just begin to step out and pray like the disciples modeled prayer for us, specifically in, say, areas of healing, I just all of a sudden God's power just began to flow and people were getting healed and saved and delivered and it was just His power. I guess if there's one word, it's power, and I think there's so many Christians kind of living a powerless Christianity, and so I think that's the biggest biblical principle that really has impacted me.

Dorsey Ross: 43:57

Is that living like you were saying, living a powerless life, or not seeing healings, or not seeing miracles take place? Is that a lack of faith or a lack of doubt from what God is telling us that we have the power to do?

Mike Manuel: 44:20

I think it's all the above, although it doesn't take—he says the faith is the size of a mustard seed. Well, that's not big. I think it's been, honestly, a lot of bad teaching in the church, like, oh, that's not for today, and I'm like—and I was in a church for 12 years before I was a pastor that taught that it's not for today and I'm like, okay, and I just took that. I just like, well, it's not for today. And I'm like, okay, and I just took that. I just like, well, it's not for today.

Mike Manuel: 44:46

But then when God called me to be a pastor and I'm doing Bible school and Bible college and studying on my own, I'm like I can't find that anywhere. And I know people use 1 Corinthians 13,. When everything comes into perfection and when the perfect comes, you know those things will pass away. But like that's not what that's talking about. That's not what that's talking about at all. It's really bad hermeneutics. So I just honestly, I just couldn't find anywhere in the Bible where it said you don't need this. In fact, I found the opposite. Jesus said no, you need this stuff. You don't need this. In fact, I found the opposite. Jesus said no, you need this stuff. You need the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit working in your life. You need that as you witness. So some of it's bad teaching and a lot of it's just fear. Like okay, so I learned I could see the biblical truth. But now I'm fearful to step out and do that, because what if it doesn't happen?

Mike Manuel: 45:47

And what I realized, that was just my own junk, you know, because I used to pray prayers as a pastor. I called them namby-pamby prayers and I mean I didn't pray these words, but it was kind of. This attitude was oh you know, somebody came up, say, after church and wanted prayer for healing. I would pray something. I mean, I didn't pray these words, but the attitude was oh God, if you're not too tired and if we worship hard enough today and if Cindy here has been a good girl and you want to heal her, great. But if not, you know, we'll go home and eat roast beef and you know, whatever you want to do, and that's not a biblical prayer. And I knew that the prayer was as modeled by the disciples, in the name of Jesus, get up and walk. And I'm like, but what if I say that? What if I speak that and it doesn't happen? Well then I realize well that's lack of faith. And so I can tell you when I started doing that was May of 2010.

Mike Manuel: 46:54

I saw a gal with two herniated discs 32 years old, could hardly walk, came up to the front of the church after service and wanted prayer. Came up to the front of the church after service and wanted prayer and what came out of my mouth was in the name of Jesus, I command these herniated discs to be healed in Jesus' name. In the name of Jesus, I speak complete and total healing. I couldn't believe that came out of my mouth, but that's how the disciples taught us to pray, and she was instantly healed and it remains so today. She lives in the same town I do now, and that really kicked off a whole, really a new life for me. Not that I'm some you know TV faith healer with big hair and a white suit, but I'm simply proclaiming the truth of God's Word and following what Jesus asked us to do and told us to do. And not everybody I pray for gets healed, but most do, and honestly I just say it's kind of crazy. And so what I've been teaching in the church like in our church, one of the things I teach is. There's good weird and bad weird. There's a lot of bad weird things that happen in a church. You know, I personally I think handling snakes is kind of bad, weird, but whatever. There's just some bad weird things that are mostly fleshly manifestations of people. But then there's some things that are from God that are like, wow, that's weird.

Mike Manuel: 48:29

We do a lot of work in India. I've been there three times. The first time I went to India, a guy came up at one of our outdoor events and he had a broken leg. I mean it was dangling, eight-hour bus ride from the nearest hospital. We're way out in the villages and a Hindu guy, mostly Hindu people around, but I'd spoken about Jesus, I'd given them a gospel message. Many had responded for salvation and I said you know, jesus is alive today and if you need healing he wants to heal. You Come up up and we'll pray that this guy comes up. And I saw that dangly leg and I'm like I don't know. But I just kneeled down and put my hands on it and said in the name of Jesus, I command this leg to be healed. And it popped right back into place, swear to God. And he went off dancing and running and the village just went nuts.

Mike Manuel: 49:23

Now, if you don't believe that, I understand that, because if I wouldn't have been there myself I wouldn't have believed it. But it happened, and other things have happened like that before. Like that's—how I can say this that's weird, but it's good. Weird and it's stuff that Jesus said we should be doing. But I think there's a lot of reasons why we don't do it. But it's been a real I don't know, I guess change in my life to see God's power, because he loves people. That's why he's doing it. And he kind of spoke that to me. He said when you see these healings, make sure you tell people that I'm real and that I care, and so I'm always sure to do that. So anyway, that's one of the big principles that has changed my life and gives me even more passion to minister to people.

Dorsey Ross: 50:23

Right, and I think sometimes, when it comes to specifically healing, I think it also depends on God's timing, maybe it's not God's timing for that person to be healed at that moment.

Mike Manuel: 50:44

Yes, and that's a thing, and I also know that God uses doctors and nurses to heal, and I'm very thankful for that. God used a doctor to save my life several years ago, and so you know I'd never discount that either. But I think a lot of times we wait until we're desperate before we pray to God for healing. Like you know, we wait until we're on our deathbed. Well, let's just really get around and pray. Well, how about you did that first? Or on your way to the doctor, maybe pray?

Dorsey Ross: 51:14

Yeah, absolutely. One other last question I'd like to ask is can you give us an encouraging word to my listeners?

Mike Manuel: 51:26

Yeah, I would just say if—go after Jesus, don't go after religion. There are a lot of great churches out there that preach Jesus with clarity and the simplicity that Jesus originally had. Don't let bad experiences with religious people keep you away from a real healthy relationship with Jesus. You away from a real healthy relationship with Jesus and the other encouragement, especially as we're, you know, talking about this idea of deliverance. My book, breaking Up With the Enemy is don't just live like anxiety and fear and chaos and anger is normal and accepted. There is a way. Jesus says we have power and authority over that and you just need to take the steps to do that. Cancel your legal consent with the enemy, kick the enemy out and fill yourself up with the peace and presence of Jesus.

Dorsey Ross: 52:41

And where can people buy your book and connect with you?

Mike Manuel: 52:46

Yeah, the best thing my books are available on Amazon. I think they're available other places too, but Amazon's, of course, the big one. So Breaking Up With the Enemy is the book on Amazon. But I also have a website that has not only links to those books, but I have a lot of. I have free e-books. I have free courses. I have some paid for courses. I have my blog. It's modaministriescom. M-o-t-a stands for ministry one to another. Modaministriescom is my website and there's tons of free resources on there, and if people want to get a hold of me, they can contact me through that. So that's the way to go is modeministriescom.

Dorsey Ross: 53:29

Awesome. Well, Pastor Mike, thank you so much for coming on the show today. We greatly appreciate having you.

Mike Manuel: 53:36

Well, it's great to have the conversation with you, dorsey, and thank you for your podcast and what you're doing to help spread the kingdom through your podcast. Amen.

Dorsey Ross: 53:48

Well, guys and girls, thank you so much for coming on, for listening and for sharing this podcast, and please go and check out Pastor Mike's website. And until next time, god bless, bye-bye.